Who doesn’t dream of retiring in France and living the good life? Michael certainly did! Michael moved to Saint-Germain-en-Laye last October (2024) with the help of Your Friend in Paris. 6 months after his move Justyna Simmons, our co-founder and CEO, sat down with him to talk about his relocation and see how things are going now. In this interview we address topics like planning retirement abroad, expectations and realities, and life as an LGBTQ+ couple living in France.
Read the transcript below, or watch the full interview, to learn what Michael wishes he knew before his move, and how he feels about it now.
Video Transcript:
Michael: Oh, wow, hey.
Justyna: Hi, Michael, thank you so much for having us.
Absolutely, we’re thrilled to have you here.
You did an amazing job; it looks beautiful, and the light brings it all up.
Thank you.
Planning Your Retirement Abroad
Today, I would like to talk to you a little about your experience moving to Paris and, in general, how you like it so far. My first question is: What made you consider retiring abroad?
You know, great question. First of all, as a little kid, I always wanted to live in Paris, so it started way back then. About 5-6 years ago, I lost my job, and I was thinking, “What if I don’t want to go back to work?” I had a little money saved, and I couldn’t stay in New York because it was too expensive. Then, I found a huge international community that moved to Europe (everywhere).
We first started with Italy, but they don’t acknowledge gay marriage, so that was kind of out for us. Then, we looked at Lisbon, and we went over several times. It’s just a beautiful, beautiful area, but it just really wasn’t for us.
So, Eric and I—Eric had never been to Paris—decided to go. I had one day there, and I came out to him and said, “How about France, or Paris?” I’d never been there, and he said, “You’ll love it.” I said, “How do you know I’ll love it?” Anyway, I turned 60, we made a trip to Paris, and he fell in love with it. During that week there, I started Googling relocation experts, came across you, and the rest is history. Fell in love with Paris, and here we are.
When you were doing your research, what resources did you consult or work with?
Oh, wow. I started with Facebook groups. There are an inordinate number of Facebook groups out there. I’m a member of over 200 different Facebook groups that talk about moving to Europe, the legalities of moving to Europe, how you get a visa if you want to work here, bringing your dogs, finding an apartment. So, I spent a lot of time scouring the Facebook pages.
And then, of course, when we made contact with Your Friend in Paris, that also became another resource for us to help us understand what it would actually take to rent an apartment, open up a bank account, the car valet, the insurance, and probably most importantly, what the income tax impact would be for us. Yes, because that’s a big one.
Yes, thank God for the treaty of no double taxation!
I didn’t understand that. That was one of the reasons we were looking at Portugal—because I didn’t understand that about the treaty until I started doing more research on France and found out that they had the treaty. The double taxation, especially since our income is passive income, is huge. We don’t get taxed double on it.
That’s really nice.
So, it really opened up France as where we wanted to be. It’s just an incredibly beautiful country. The people have been fabulous; it’s just where we wanted to be.
It looks like you did a lot of research. A lot of work.
Years.
So, it looks like you had a very good idea of what you needed to do to move—what visa you needed to take. Yes? So, what made you decide to hire a relocation agency?
Well, while I understood, in theory, what I needed, the practicality of being able to do it and to have someone who can say, “Okay, understanding it, knowing what kind of ease I need,” but actually, the mechanics of it are very different. And there’s a level of complexity there that was beyond anything I understood. So, that’s where Your Friend in Paris—your organization—helped us. Opening up our bank account, what was that experience going to be like, perfecting the dossier for our apartment, making sure we understood the insurance we needed to have, all of that—the car valet.
You know, we just got a letter that we have to translate my birth certificate into French. So, it’s like they say, the devil’s in the details. I knew at a macro level what we needed, but I needed somebody to help us with the details.
Expectations vs Reality of Retiring Abroad
Okay. And before you moved to France, what was your biggest fear? What were you like, “Ah!”?
The language.
So, how did it turn out? How’s it going?
It’s actually been great. Eric started Duolingo a year before we moved, so he’s, God bless him, he’s been amazing. We’ve had some issues with IKEA, some issues with the cable, some issues with the electricity, but through Duolingo, he’s been able to communicate with those different organizations. We actually call them up, understand, and be able to articulate what we need.
I’m not there yet. I just started Duolingo a couple of months ago. I’m still nowhere near where Eric is. But we, because we settled in Saint-Germain-en-Laye, which has an international community, English is a bit more spoken, so for me, it’s a nice transition. I try to speak French when I’m out, but if I need to, a lot of the shopkeepers will revert to English to help me.
Language was the one that was most concerning, but we are definitely focused on taking classes and making sure we learn the language. That’s key to being able to matriculate into the society, which is what we want.
That’s amazing! And also, if your husband’s French is from just one year of Duolingo, I’m impressed. I thought he took French for years before I heard him speaking French. Yes, I was like, “That’s very good!”
Yes, he can go to places, and he’ll carry on a conversation with shopkeepers or the people in the restaurant, the manicurist—he can talk to everybody. And it’s all been through Duolingo. Now, we’re going to take official, formal classes, but Duolingo has done a great job for us.
We’ve met the guys at the Monoprix behind the counter. We’ve developed a friendship with him. One of the cashiers sees us when we’re walking along the street, and she’ll say hello to us. So, it’s a big village, but it still has the feel of a small village, which is what I like. It’s just made the transition a lot more comfortable for me.
The things that you describe will not happen in Paris. It’s too big of a city, and there are too many people.
Yes, it’s very hard. It’s like being in Manhattan.
Making Friends as an Expat Retiree
When you arrived in Saint-Germain-en-Laye, how easy was it to make a social circle? What were the first few months like after your arrival?
Sure. I’ll tell you. On Sunday, October 14th, we went to Balthazar, a restaurant overlooking the Place du Marché. Eric and I were having brunch there, and there was a couple sitting next to us with their dog, Newton—a big dog. I started talking to Newton, and we struck up a conversation with Marie and Pascal. As they were leaving, they gave us their card and invited us to get together. We reached out to them, and since then, we’ve been to their house for an apero, out to dinner several times, and they invited us to their house for Christmas Eve. Pascal is my age, around 62, and he’s retired, so he reaches out to Eric, and they’ll go for coffee at 8 or 9 in the morning.
I won’t call you before 9 AM, I promise! (laughs)
(laughs) Yeah, Eric and Pascal go for coffee, sometimes lunch, or whatever. So we’ve made good friends with them. In our building, there are six apartments, and the neighbors have been absolutely fabulous. Last night, we had an aperitif; they organized it, and we went up to their house for meats, cheeses, and desserts. From that standpoint, we’ve managed to develop a network within just three or four months that most people don’t develop within two years, and that’s because we extended ourselves. Like, I’m working with WICE, which is an organization for expats, because I wanted to learn the language, and they offer classes. I’ve also been involved with you, Eric’s joined the Gay Men’s Choir, and he auditioned, got accepted, and made friends there. A couple from the Gay Men’s Choir even invited us to their apartment for dinner on Saturday.
Busy, busy!
Yes, the network just keeps expanding organically because we’ve put ourselves out there. You’ve got to work at integrating into society, and that’s exactly what we’re doing.
Life in France
Speaking of society, you’re a gay couple. Do you notice any differences in the way you’re treated in Paris compared to Manhattan, or even the suburbs here?
I think there are two things. First of all, in Manhattan, I never felt out of place. Manhattan is a melting pot with all kinds of different nationalities and lifestyles, so I never felt like there was any issue. But when you leave Manhattan and go to other states, especially now with the political climate in the US, it feels different. Major cities are fine, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable moving to other parts of the country right now.
Here in France, it’s a non-issue. You don’t read about it, you don’t see it as a topic of conversation. Everyone has the same rights. It’s not a political tool or anything. We haven’t traveled much outside the main cities, but we’ve made friends on Facebook and had some luncheons with different groups. We even have a transgender friend who moved to a small village in southern France. There are no issues. The community has accepted her. I don’t feel uncomfortable here at all.
That’s amazing about French society—it’s refreshing that they just don’t care. It’s not a topic of conversation.
Moving forward, how do you see yourself in five years?
Oh, that’s a great question.
Do you see yourself staying in Saint-Germain-en-Laye, or maybe moving to Paris?
I like the idea of staying here, yes, I absolutely do. Our apartment is on the third floor, which means there are three flights of stairs. That’s the only thing that concerns me—navigating stairs as I get older. But there are people here older than me who run up the stairs, so it’s not an issue now. But that’s the only thing I think about at this point. I love the apartment; our view is gorgeous, and it overlooks the Place du Marché. It’s a beautiful place. We really like it—it’s perfect for us.
It really is a beautiful apartment.
I’m very happy here. And I have my friends in Paris to thank for it. The second apartment we looked at, we saw two in one day, and this was the one.
We knew this one was special. It had everything.
We’re very fortunate.
Final Advice for Others Retiring Abroad
I have some final questions. What would you tell someone who’s moving to Paris, things not to do?
I’d probably tell them two things: One is more practical, and the other is emotional.
First, we brought too much stuff. We didn’t bring furniture, but we brought family photos, Christmas ornaments, things like that. But there’s nothing you can’t buy here, and unless it has personal meaning, I would be more discerning about what you bring.
The second thing is, I was the one who pushed for us to leave New York and move to Paris for several reasons—financial, travel, and because France is so central to Europe. I retired, and Eric quit his job. But after we arrived, I had this overwhelming sense of loss, like, “What have I done?” I was very active in my church and my community in New York. I had friends for over 30 years, and suddenly I was leaving all of that behind. I was ready to move, but when I got here, the reality hit. I was nervous about losing my network, my community, not speaking the language.
If I could talk to myself from October 12th, the day we moved here, I would have said, “Be prepared.” The emotional impact was unexpected. But thanks to you, I had someone to talk to. It was overwhelming at first, but the support I got from Your Friend in Paris helped me so much.
I’m so happy to hear that. It’s a happy ending!
Absolutely. I couldn’t have done it without your help and the support we’ve had here.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. It will help so many people.
I hope so. And I’m here for anyone who needs help.
Check out our other interview with a retiree now living in Paris!
